Exclusive: Inside the all-new Indian Thunder Stroke 111 V-Twin Engine Indian Motorcycles is back with an all-new V-Twin to take on Harley-Davidson.

Thunder Stroke 111 V-Twin

The new Indian Thunder Stroke 111 engine is running and I have seen it. Polaris Industries, a $3-billion-a-year corporation, bought the King’s Mountain Indian business in April, 2011. What I have seen is an entirely new, free-standing design, sharing nothing with previous Indian revivals or Polaris’ existing Victory motorcycle products. I flew out to see the engine only; the rest of the machine would be revealed later. At last, the Indian name is in the hands of people with the power to realize its potential.

Their task was delicate and multifaceted: to find out what the Indian name still means to potential buyers; to identify the unique visible and invisible features that made Indian iconic; and to translate those qualities into a modern form that can deliver the sophisticated performance required in our time, both on the road and in terms of durability, sound and emissions.

The new engine is an air-cooled, 
49-degree V-Twin displacing 111 cubic inches from a 101mm bore and a 113mm stroke. Designing this 1811cc engine was made doubly difficult by the need to combine modern technology with the special Indian features that somehow live in the minds of American motorcyclists. Everyone has an “Indian story”—a family member who owned a Chief, who rode the Lincoln Highway to California on an Indian before the war, of someone who raced an Indian in hillclimbs. Call this a “folk memory” if you will, but it has power and value. We’ve seen the process in the creation and success of the “New Beetle” and the “new” Mini automobiles.

Greg Brew is the chief of Polaris ID, its large, respected, and fast-expanding Industrial Design department. Every product it makes passes across his desk. He began by producing a study of Indian from the beginning, and listed their images and features in pages of computer files. He could see that the post-WWI “Powerplus” was too far in the past, and in time, his focus became the 1940 Chief. Although you would list creamy paints, the teardrop gas tank and valanced “Art Deco” fenders, it turned out that what people most remembered as specifically identifying Indian was its engine. Five different renderings incorporating combinations of these features were considered, and the final choice has some salient features: outward-angled cooling fins on the heads (used even on Indian Singles); the contrast of large-diameter heads on the smaller-finned cylinders; downward-angled exhaust pipes; and prominent, large-
diameter, parallel pushrod tubes. Parallel, not crossed.

Thunder Stroke 111 rendering

A high-quality rendering of the timing side of the Thunder Stroke 111 engine. Vee is 49 degrees.

How does a major corporation decide to commit serious money to a folk memory? Indian is seen as the only brand iconic and powerful enough to challenge Harley-Davidson for the hearts and minds of American riders. This is classic American enterprise—nothing ventured, nothing gained.

The engine had to have overhead valves for reasons of power, durability, and emissions, yet it has to be recognizably “Indian” in identity. I was particularly curious to see the heads. As the large displacement requires, they are heavily finned. As the need to keep combustion heat out of the heads requires, their exhaust ports are very short. The turn downward to achieve the look is made in bolted-on investment-cast stainless steel elbows, and the turn they make is no more severe than is seen in the headers of four-cylinder sportbikes. Seen from the right, there are the two exhaust headers, pointed straight down.

Each head has just two valves, and their stems are parallel. Each intake port approaches its intake valve on a tangent, causing vigorous charge swirl in the cylinder that generates combustion-accelerating turbulence. Fast combustion is efficient, losing minimum heat. The two valves are slightly tilted as in classic American V-Eight “wedge” combustion chambers. This design is said to be inspired by that of the Corvette LS7 engine. Because of the long stroke, the combustion chamber has the openness to retain turbulence throughout combustion. There is a small squish shelf on the pushrod side.

Separate cylinder construction is employed, and cylinder bores are hard-plated with a Nikasil-like coating. This durable thin plating eliminates the insulating effect and weight of a traditional iron liner. The result is a cooler-running engine, which means better piston durability.

Primary cover sketch

A final sketch of the primary cover.

When you make power, you make heat. Ten fins on each head and cylinder cool those parts well, but an overheated piston crown can still heat the fresh charge, forcing use of a lower compression ratio to avoid detonation. Best, therefore, to follow modern practice, with a low-friction, light “ashtray” piston cooled by oil jets, just as were the pistons that powered Lockheed’s Constellation airliner. Two thin, low-drag gas rings are backed by the three-piece oil ring that is best for air-cooled cylinders. These cast pistons are entirely modern—completely flat on top, short-skirted and with short, light wristpins. Powertrain design supervisor Dave Galsworthy noted that reciprocating weight “cascades” through an engine. A heavier piston and con-rod small-end require larger bearings with more friction. They need heavier crank counterweights and balancer. Testimony to effective cooling is the high 9.5:1 compression ratio, which not only boosts torque directly but also reduces fuel consumption. Yes, sportbikes have higher compression, but they are liquid-cooled. Part of the package here is correctly sized valves. Huge valves may have a gut appeal, but by reducing intake velocity they slow mid- and bottom-end combustion, sacrificing torque. Premium fuel is specified for this engine, but it is protected by detonation sensors and software. If knock is detected, the system retards ignition timing to suppress it.

The side-by-side plain-bearing con-rods (the rear cylinder is offset to the left) have surprisingly slender I-beams of constant cross-section. Why so slender? That’s the wrong question. The right question is, why are the rods of older designs so ponderous? The small ends of the rods are tapered, further cutting weight. The insights of Finite Element Analysis are at work here, allowing con-rods to safely shed bearing-hammering weight. Rod big-ends are manufactured in one piece, then fractured in modern style, allowing perfect registration when the caps are bolted in place—better than dowels, better than the most precise of machined serrations. Remember that serious engines everywhere—from Formula 1 to heavy-duty truck diesels—spin in long-lived, three-layer plain rod and main bearings like these.

Because the rods can be assembled over the single 52mm crankpin, the massive crankshaft can be a rugged one-piece steel forging. When I asked noise, vibration and harshness supervisor (and musician) Anthony Komarek about this crank’s vibratory modes, he replied, “They are all above its operating speed.” Main journals of 62 and 65mm diameter also ride in plain bearings. A transverse oil gallery at roughly the 4 o’clock position ahead of the crank supplies the grooved main bearings, from which oil enters diagonal drillings in the crank that carry oil to the crankpin and big-ends. There is a single engine-speed balancer, designed to soften but not eliminate engine primary vibration. Engineering can deliver perfect smoothness but riders want to be in touch with what’s happening.

Thunder Stroke 111 part

The mighty crank is one piece. Rods run side-by-side on the journal. “Teeth” are for crank-position sensor.

Parallel pushrod tubes require the three cams this engine in fact has. The center cam, with two lobes, drives the intake valves, while single-lobed cams on either side drive the exhausts. The three are connected by helical gears. A single silent chain connects the crank to the center cam. Hydraulic roller tappets drive pushrods and rockers. The 51.3mm intake and 42mm exhaust valves are returned to their seats by single helical springs of tapered “beehive” design. Beehive springs resist spring “surge,” the occurrence of standing waves in the coils. Valve lift is approximately 12mm.

A “Y” manifold connects to each of the engine’s two inlet ports by flexible rubber manifolds, and the throttle-body diameter is 54mm (2 1/8 inch). The fuel injectors mount to the “Y,” so their clicking is not radiated from the fin structure of the head. This is a throttle-by-wire engine, controlled by a Bosch ME17 ECU. Crank angle is reported by a sensor reading the rotation of a large toothed wheel attached to the left crank cheek. Ignition coils for the two plugs—one per cylinder—are rubber-mounted to the right of the “Y” intake manifold.

Just as pioneered by Indian long ago, the Thunder Stroke 111 engine is of rigid unit construction with a gear primary drive to the six-speed transmission. The primary gears I saw were of noise-suppressing scissors construction, but the smoothness of the drive, conferred by the substantial crank, may make this unnecessary. There is a three-lobed cam-and-saddle torsional shock absorber built into the primary pinion on the crank itself, and the very large clutch also carries a spring drive of six helical springs. Driveline smoothness has been a major goal with this powertrain.

Why so large a clutch, filling the prominent case on the left side? The large diameter allows fewer plates to do the job, which translates into less lift to disengage. The result? A very light clutch pull.

How much development? I was told, “a billion-and-a-half engine revolutions, a million road miles and 2000 dyno hours.”

Engine dyno testing

Kevin Cameron sees a Thunder Stroke 111 engine test mule run on the dyno.

This is a serious program. From August, 2011, when Thunder Stroke’s V-Twin configuration was chosen, all this has been accomplished. It has required a large design staff and the corporate will to make it happen quickly.

The six-speed gearbox employs straight-cut gears only for first; second through sixth are quiet-running helicals. By placing more teeth in simultaneous mesh (the so-called contact ratio), helicals soften the load transfer from tooth-to-tooth and increase capacity. All shifting is by dog ring as the end-thrust generated by helical gears would otherwise press against the shift forks.

Final drive to the rear wheel is by toothed belt on the right side. The permanent-mold crankcase splits vertically. A compact starter motor is located at the front, and centrifugal exhaust-valve lifters in each exhaust cam assure quick achievement of starting momentum. The part of the case behind the gearbox is the engine’s oil tank. The gear-driven oil pump is located below it. There were oil coolers on engines I saw, and that’s fine with me. The mighty piston aircraft engines of WWII couldn’t have done without them.

How much power does this monster make? The official word? “The design intent is a strong and broad torque curve,” providing muscular acceleration any time the rider asks for it. Yes, but how much? My back-of-the-envelope estimate is an easy hundred horses. Plenty of power. Torque is claimed to be “over 115 ft.-lb.” Now listen to the engine’s sound (on www.indianmotorcycle.com), which is uniquely syncopated by its close firing order. A distinctive exhaust sound is part of a machine’s identity.

Indian and Harley were great rivals for decades, generating strong loyalties and strong emotions. Another great American tradition is competition, which improves all capable participants. If the new Indian revives that rivalry, it can only be good for all riders.

  • robert gagne

    This is all well and good for the cruiser crowd; we now have
    3 American name plates dedicated to cruisers, O joy. I personally would like to
    see Polaris or some other capable corporation create a more diverse line up of
    motorcycle, including scooters. HD should have kept Eric Buell and Polaris
    should keep shopping. Maybe Fiat/Chrysler should partner with MV Agusta.
    Needless to say, new, younger riders are not going to be able to afford Indain Motorcycles.

  • Ben Wipperman

    Keep your fingers crossed and hope, Robert. The Indian brand, given it’s overall history, would be a great one to diversify. Maybe not into scooter land, but certainly into former Buell territory.

  • http://profiles.google.com/biggsquidd Archie Dux

    The guts and architecture of that engine look very much like the S&S X-Wedge engine.

    • http://www.facebook.com/john.black.1253 John Black

      not even close

  • TonyC

    A delicate line to walk, indeed. Indians had downward pipes because they had side valves, not for styling. And it’s doubtful they would have kept many of those design features once the science advanced enough to show a better route.
    As for what people think of when they think Indian engines? I think a straight four cylinder. But what do I know? I’m from Springfield.

  • jt nesbitt

    And now even Cameron is lost in the retro feedback loop. A shameful pastiche of retro anti-american marketing spin. We are truly lost.

    • Now&Zen

      Three cheers to JT for making his presence known here ! The man called it right from the moment Polaris announced the ( cough ) ‘ new ‘ Indian . Now go have a tear over Cyril’s way if you would JT . The man’s censoring any negative posts about Indian on his site

  • http://www.facebook.com/tim.wright.370 Tim Wright

    Although I am not a cruiser guy, I am very impressed and excited about what Polaris may be able to do with Indian. I agree with Robert Gagne that America has enough big heavy cruisers and needs stuff for the “rest of us”, but this is a start. I honestly would rather Polaris make a new line of middle-weight naked and adventure style motorcycles based on their already available twins they use in their atv line.

  • http://www.facebook.com/fwyss4 Fred Wyss

    Indian at the copying again, If thats not an S&S X-Wedge it’s a copy. Nice try though

    • http://www.facebook.com/john.black.1253 John Black

      56 degree vs 39degree ?
      not even close, go back to school for ya maths

    • http://www.facebook.com/matt.reifer Matt Reifer

      The S&S x wedge looks like a copy of the Indian from the 40s and 50s. Do you know anything about American Motorcycles? And the HD is a copy of the Indain also.

  • Now&Zen

    The more a company tries to rely on its past ( especially when it really isn’t their past ) to sell its newest products … the more you can bet they have no future . Especially when as with this its just one more amongst the multitudes of VTwin 2 valve air cooled engines powering the thing . MINI took the retro concept to a whole new and better place . Indian is simply playing Xerox and hoping for the best

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1622942656 Eric Clark-Sanchez

      Nope, they are not playing Xerox. I can’t disclose any information in detail because I work for Polaris and I’m not allowed to do so, but what I can say, is your gonna see a machine that is NOT a Victory, is NOT a redo of something that has been done by Indian already, but WILL be something that will appeal to Indian enthusiasts. Polaris has put alot of hard work and research and money into the Indian brand, no way would they throw something out there that’s just a wannabe carbon copy trying to relive glory days. I have seen the new Indian, my only reaction is… WHOA!!! Harley Davidson… they better be worried.

      • chris

        Hey Eric if its possible inform Indian that they need to get an entry class motorcycle built you know affordable most of us don’t have 20 grand to spend on a bike, look what triumph did kudos to them, also an everyday growing number of us weren’t even born when Indian went bankrupt and an everyday growing number of people have passed on since then really I would love and will own an Indian some day before I croak, but I feel success is pulling in a new generation of Indian riders mmmm maybe Indian sportbikes the new generation are very into that, sorry to say but just in my opinion is that Harley is starting to fade out of style eventhough I love them too. Best of Luck to you guys im impressed

  • CrumblyChris

    Another heavy pig engine, just what we want from an “American” manufacturer. Why don’t they build something exciting rather than a big heap of Americana cr@p. Victory will sell a few to the posers and then quietly shut down production. You can bet on it.

  • Matt

    You all add up to a bunch of tire kickers. Harley did this, s&s did that. If it wasn’t for Indian, Harley would be a peddle bike. How many years did Indian make a four? You all are just flapping you lips. Riveting stuff….. Nerds!

    • jb1025

      That 4 was a henderson

      • chris

        but indian made the inline 4 as well no?

  • http://www.facebook.com/hamish.lamont1 Hamish Lamont

    Choice? CHOICE Bro! Sounds WICKED! Took a girly for a ride on one of my Dukes the other day and she says “Mmmm, it purrs like a big cat” I think she needs to come for a ride on my new Indian!! You could write rock ballads to this beat!

  • Tim I

    Interesting, and on the right track,but I wish they would use polished alloy rather than chrome, and get rid of all the “signage” on the engine. It’s tacky! Why not just cast the “Indian” script into the primary cover (as on the pre-WWII bikes) and leave it at that?

  • http://www.facebook.com/zetec1951 Chris Sinclair

    To challenge Harley, they will have to also match on price..which I doubt…

    • http://www.facebook.com/john.black.1253 John Black

      watch them
      hd have not produced anything reliable since the evo, pure garbage since then, they’re just a t shirt & sunglass distributor using a junk-bike-wannabe-lifestyle as the “vehicle”(excuse the pun) for aftermarket sales

  • cycle454

    after meeting with s&s about the x-wedge, they said they liked it but wanted to be seen as making their own engine…imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

    • http://www.facebook.com/john.black.1253 John Black

      56 degree vs 39degree ?
      your not even close, go back to school for ya maths

      • cycle454

        because that’s the only distinguishing feature of an engine

  • sandman

    Very simular to the X-Wedge engine from S&S, with some improvements, like doing away with the “belt cam drive”, but this is just my 2 cents worth, and I wish the good folks at Victory many yrs of production, but for me, I will stick with the American bike that was around when I grew up? (never have though) and that is not to say I do not like change, I do own a V-rod, but also have a Sportster, and Buel, so I can not be called a traditionalist, But I do try to buy American whenever I can!

  • http://www.facebook.com/lyle.landstrom Lyle Landstrom

    Those X-Wedge guys are totally wrong. Indian had two cams and parallel push rod tubes well before S&S was even a company. I agree with the comments about tacky logos on the covers and too much chrome. But they are easily fixed.

  • Dan_The _Man

    We have enough air cooled V-Twins as it is, but a longitudinal 4 would have been unique and is a part of Indian’s heritage. With another V-Twin Indian will be competing with Victory. The people who grow up on Scouts are not around anymore (or can’t ride anymore) So the Indian name on it’s own isn’t that powerful.

    • http://www.facebook.com/matt.reifer Matt Reifer

      I grew up on a Scout and hope to be riding it another 60 years. I wouldn’t own anthigy else but an Indian.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=577306587 Ronald Wilkinson

    What about a Scout?
    I like the noise. I don’t like the air cleaner, the designs on the primary cover or the other side of the case. Otherwise I’m very curious to see the final outcome. Victories have grown on me so a Neo Indian might too.

  • HAB

    The can use the Indian line for “old school” riders and turn Victory loose from the v-twin ball and chain.

  • rapier

    A narrow angle 2 valve air cooled V twin might have been a design exercise in 1913 but 100 years on it’s mainly a styling exercise. The job of the designers to work within the huge limits imposed by the style. It all leaves a bad taste in my mouth, style and limits that is. If you get my drift.

  • Jim Jorden

    I like it, although not a fan of the sculptured fenders. I’ve owned 14 street bikes since 1971, have averaged over 30k miles on each; my favorite, 96 Buell S2T. I’ve been riding a Victory 8 Ball for 7 yrs, over 33,000 miles; I believe Victory has the best Vtwin cruisers currently available, and glad to see them bring Indian back. If Victory builds, it will be right. I’d buy one, unfortunately out of my price range.

  • Jay R

    Looking at the price structure it’s premium, indeed. I can’t see leaving HD when I can get a CVO for less than an Indian. Good luck on building bikes for the elite few.

  • Tom Quinn

    Affordability is key. If Indian prices their motorcycles out of reach of John Q. then the Marque will be associated with boutique bling for affluent weekend warriors and will never realize its rightful market share. Chiefs are great….but we need an affordable Scout with the kind of performance edge that established Indian as a serious motorcycle from Loudon to Bonneville. That means making the new 111 available across the line and not playing the game that Harley does by limiting its best engines to an wealthy few. If Indian produces a Scout with the 111 motor and a modern chassis for under 15000 USD then it could take a huge market share from Harley riders disenchanted with Harley Davidsons elitist attitude toward sales. Remember what Detroit did with the muscle cars of the 60′s? Keep it simple…like the Victory Hammer started out to be …before it’s promise was spoiled with ridiculous fat tires and form before function. Indian’s potential for a powerful revival is great and there are legions of fans like me who sincerely want to see success come again to one of the great names in Motorcycling. My father worked for Indian in Springfield, Massachusetts as a mechanic and test rider. I think your engineers have created a fantastic design with the 111 and Polaris deserves utmost credit for caring about Indian to dedicate to such a formidable project and to see it to such a beautiful beginning. And the Sound!!

  • marvinmcconoughey

    Nice design. Full primary and secondary balance would have required a costly double set of counter balancing shafts: both spinning at twice engine speed. A
    German firm has designed such a engine to be a range extender for hybrid cars.

  • Mark

    Whatever Vega used was certainly not Nikasil. Their cylinder walls lasted for only 30k and then burned oil like crazy. I have owned and worked on many, many BMW motorcycles with Nikasil lined cylinders and have never seen it fail as you suggest.YMMV I have pulled cylinder from bikes with way over 100k miles on them and found the original cross hatch still looking like new.